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Post by unicorn on Jul 1, 2013 19:57:35 GMT
Alright, H is still on his good behavior kick. He has even gone out of his way to attend my family gatherings and is actually living like a normal person in that he wakes at 8 am and works around the house all day, cooks dinner for when I get home from work. Takes care of the kids, cleans, etc. He has two job interviews this week. he finally went through and claimed unemployment too, so we will have a little income from that until he gets a job. His next counselor appt is in a week and a half. Although we had a nice weekend together, we did have a couple incidents. Saturday night his brother and wife came over, before our other friends got there we spent about an hour or so discussing the child abuse that my in laws inflicted on my husband and his four brothers. Holy crap. I truly wasn't aware to the extent of the abuse until now. It was really bad. I'm surprised that they don't have anymore problems than the ones that they do. After awhile more friends arrived, one being my best friend. She and I were outside at one point by ourselves talking (about H). I heard a noise above us, came inside to see H coming downstairs (obviously he was spying on us by the upstairs window (in my daughter's room)). We came inside, everyone else left. She and I were playing tetris on the playstation. He seemed completely annoyed and asked me when i was going to go to bed. I said, "I don't know, maybe in an hour or so." He knocked around for awhile, eventually she went home and I was stuck with him.
He said that it hurt his feelings that his drunk brother, hollered out, "I should have married ___" about me. Then he said he overheard my friend and I talking about him and he was mad about that, because I had told him that I don't really talk about him w/ her. I told him I have to lie to him because I'm afraid he won't let me stay friends with her. He called me a "pathological liar," which he calls me a lot. I said, "well maybe when I can trust you, I can stop lying to you." I also told him I have no emotions towards him (for the third time) including when we have sex. He cried. I said it's ok for him to touch me, I just don't want to plantantly lead him on. I said I was upset that I never knew about the child abuse before now.
So for now, I am considering doing more journaling. Should I focus on the "crazy" stuff that comes up? I need something to help me decide in my decision to stay or go. I need to look at the evidence that even though he is being nice, there are still lots of problems. i.e. social anxiety and paranoia about people talking about him. Any ideas?
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Post by maremma67 on Jul 2, 2013 4:55:24 GMT
Wow Unicorn, I hope we talk about some of the things you said here.Before you make any decisions about HIM you have to make some about and for YOU.
You said " I told him I have to lie to him because I'm afraid he won't let me stay friends with her" I see some serious issues here on BOTH sides. The obvious is that he would not want you to be friends with her anymore so that you cannot talk about him to her. His ego is so fragile that he cannot tolerate any negative talk about him and so would want to isolate you from speaking to anyone at all. We can work on all that after we talk about some other things though okay?
More important though is that you said "He won't let me". Just exactly how would he STOP you from staying friends with her? What made you give him the power to even cause you to make that statement? YOU and YOU alone have the right and power to dictate who you will and won't be friends with.
I understand all the head games, manipulations and even outright temper tantrums that go on to try to isolate you. My husband started his attempts to isolate me fairly early on and actually did manage to chase off two of my friends before I "caught on" to the games and became angry at what was going on.He made the mistake of starting his crap against my best friend and I halted him right in his tracks.Do not allow them to suck you into the mind games. DO NOT engage them in it.Armor on,Shield up AS SOON AS you even THINK what they are saying and doing is a manipulation....You're DONE "discussing" it.
I looked him straight in the eye deadly serious. I am sure he could feel the underlying river of outrage in me even though I did not yell at him or become loud whatsoever. I just told him point blank, "I strongly suggest that you stop this campaign against "s" and do not make any further attempts to interfere in my relationship with her. If you force me to choose between her and you? You WILL lose, hands down, every time. Bank on it" I turned and walked away. There is nothing left to discuss. There is nothing left to "work out" between you and him. All that's left is for him to work it out with himself if he wants to respect your boundary or suffer the consequence you laid out if he violates it. Its that simple. He never tried it again and his attitude towards her and her later husband was a 180.
NO ONE can "no let you" be friends with someone else unless YOU give them that power over you. You do not need to lie to him. You just need to take that power back.
The more you work on YOU the easier the decision to stay or go is going to be.
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Post by SolarFlare on Jul 2, 2013 8:14:31 GMT
^^^^ Again...excellent!
Unicorn
He is hoovering...you know this. If you do NOT feel Love for him? I can understand the aversion to having sex with him. I know I did/ do not desire my husband overly much. No matter how long it had been, I just wasn't feeling it for him. The abuse kills the drive, and that is normal. Of course, you are then accused of getting it elsewhere and blah blah blah.
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Post by unicorn on Jul 2, 2013 13:48:38 GMT
Maremma,
You are correct, he should never have that power over me, and I allowed it. Mostly because of this threats, or his brainwashing that he would do to me. I still see him trying to sneak it on me at times too. Mostly I am afraid he'll do something stupid w/ our kids, such as just scaring them, or turning them against me or whatever. I think my daughter is smarter than that, but I don't know about the boys. I have an inherit fear in me. When I know he's mad, I immediately get severe anxiety. I know a lot of all of this has to do with the fact that I allowed and allowed it for so many years.
I do like what you say about picking the friend over him. Question, he said after she left that he almost yelled at her to "get out of his house," because he saw that she was shaking her head when he asked when I was going to go to bed. If he had done that I really don't know what I would have done. Probably just allowed it and apologized to her = ( What would you have done?
SolarFlare,
Glad to 'see' you again! Yes the accusations of cheating, always. It never ends. He asked me if I was going out with my friend to find a "replacement" for him. WTF.
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Post by maremma67 on Jul 2, 2013 16:48:15 GMT
First let me explain something.Children are smarter than adults give them credit for. If you are nurturing your own personal relationship with your children THAT is the foundation from which they will start with when someone else comes along and tries to "turn your kids on you" My kids were never once "fooled" by anything anyone else ever said or did against me to try to turn them against me. (and he did try as well as some other people)The children will already know who you are because you have been nurturing them and loving them all along.
The person that comes along trying to do this is only going to be digging their own grave with the children so to speak. Children innately have a unique bond with their mother. Sadly even an abusive mother is afforded this innate bond so the mother that is loving and nurturing (not spoiling and just buying them crap and giving them whatever they want actual nurturing and loving.) is going to have that loyalty magnified ten fold.
GOOD FREAKING LUCK buddy trying to turn a child on that!In the eyes of the child the abuser attempting to do this is a major threat to THEIR own security. They are going to only be pushed CLOSER to you.They are going to CLING to their security and as a child their security is YOU.
You know even as an adult and having a bit better understanding of her fathers "problems" my daughter still reacted to my husband trying to turn her against me with rejecting him and clinging even harder onto me. HIS daughter (only my stepdaughter) would not play that game either. Even SHE wouldn't do it and she is still "broken" and desperate to have a good relationship with her father. Even in her brokenness and desperation to bond with him that loyalty to the one that DID love, nurture and protect them as kids remained intact.
As for any of the bullying he would attempt to do to punish the children for their loyalty to you, I will tell you THAT would be your CLEAR indication that it is OVER. Time to to pack the kids up and LEAVE his sorry butt. As the mother you unfortunately not only have to shield yourself you have the responsibility of shielding your children from any form of abuse as well even if it is from their own father.That also includes mental and emotional abuse.
If you were forced to stay wit him for any reason and not be able to get the kids out of that poison immediately you would be forced to then grow big ole teeth to defend them with. I would certainly help you to do that as well.
Now I can tell you what I would have done but until I understand your entire situation I am not so sure I would tell you to do the exact same thing.Has your husband ever hit you or the kids for example? If there would be any risk to the kids I would certainly not have told you to leave them with him in the house while YOU leave WITH your friend to finish your visit outside the home. (one option)
If that option were possible I would have simply stated "Well since you are feeling so uncomfortable with me visiting with my friend in the house I will be back when we are through with our visit" and out the door I would have went. No further discussion. You have to say things firmly with NO emotions in them when dealing with them. You cannot give them anything to feed off of, giving NO acknowledgment to the temper tantrum they are trying to throw to get their own way.
If my husband would have ever told one of my friends to get out of the house it would have depended on the entire circumstances as to how I would have responded to it. For example depending on which friend it was and how THEY would have reacted to it. I do have one friend that although it would have been VERY unlikely he would have have EVER attempted a "direct hit" on her. (yelling at her to get out) I may well have just stood back and let her "defend herself" Yeah that may have even been pretty funny. LOL (Her dad is a cop and my husband was well aware of this fact)
Had it been one of my more docile friends, he would have gotten "the look" (he knows exactly what THAT looks means) and depending on the age the children were and whether they were already in bed or not I would have either done exactly what I suggested to you (if the kids were in bed)or if they were awake and or other company was also there. NEVER yell at them. NEVER let them know they are getting a rise out of you. NEVER feed their dragon.It only serves to fuel the fire they want to breath out all over you.
I would have then calmly asked him "Just exactly what did you think you were going to accomplish by acting like a bully?" "You are free to leave the house if you do not care for my company or you are free to go to bed.You're a grown man, I am not making you stay up. It is my company and I am fine with staying up to finish my visit.
He may have stormed off slamming doors to get to bed, (acting like an even bigger fool. Nothing like a two year old temper tantrum coming out of a grown mans body) but I would have completely ignored it (just like you do an actual two year old throwing a tantrum trying to get their own way)
As always,if it escalated beyond the foot stomping and yelling I would have called the police to remove HIM from the home and let him sit in jail. Broken property threats of violence etc. All equal advise for police removal and end of relationship.
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Post by SolarFlare on Jul 2, 2013 17:14:11 GMT
Unicorn. I have been in the same shoes re; friends and the whole 9 yards of it. Everything Maremma wrote is so true.
Stay the course on your exit strategy both for yourself and your kids. Also re: kids, my father tried the alienation thing with myself and my sister against my mom. Didn't work. Kids are not dumb.
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Post by unicorn on Jul 2, 2013 17:44:02 GMT
Maremma,
He spanked my son badly once, to the point where he had bruises on his butt. This was a year ago and he promised never to touch the kids again and he hasn't.
My daughter told me (a couple of months ago) that when she was pre school age. He spanked her so hard, that she fell onto the ground and he told her to get back up and he continued to spank her. Of course I was only told it was a minor incident. The youngest is 3 and the typical "baby" of the family and has truly been treated differently his whole life as compared to the first two.
The only "physical" abuse to me is that he has held me down when I tried to leave before. The last time that happened was a little over a month ago. I was trying to leave because he said he was going to call the cops and tell them his weed stash was mine. (at the time this was a significant amount, a couple felonies worth, so I wanted to leave and stay out it.) I ended up not being able to leave, getting yelled at until about 5 am and he never called the police.
I'm making a list of things that would determine the end of the relationship... Adding "turning the kids against me" to it.
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Post by maremma67 on Jul 2, 2013 18:03:09 GMT
ACK drugs in the house! HUGE problem here. Honey they can and will take your kids away from you whether it is yours or not.You allowed it in the same home as your children and that is all they need to say you are an unfit mother. If that is your place throw him out. He (and his drugs) are never worth losing your children over.
This is the exact issue that caused my husbands children to wind up living with us instead of their natural mother. She chose her drug dealing boyfriend over them. She refused to throw HIM out and he just KEPT bringing drugs into their home even after we made it VERY clear to him his drugs in the same house as the kids was NOT going to fly for us.
My step daughter brought some of it right to me! WTH? How hard did he even try to hide it for a 7 year old to find it and just put it in her overnight bag to take to step mom's house? waht if she would have ingested it instead of brought it to me to ask me what it was?
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Post by unicorn on Jul 2, 2013 18:23:00 GMT
Yes I know. Luckily it is gone now. ALong w/ all his paraphanelia. He is trying to get a job and needs to be clean, and after that incident of him trying to call the cops on me, I told him to get rid of it. I've looked everywhere and I truly believe that it is all gone.
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Post by SolarFlare on Jul 3, 2013 2:47:50 GMT
Unicorn, you have a long list of more than solid reasons to exit. You know it and you are fighting it. Look at victimsofpsychopaths.wordpress.com/traumatic-bonding/ again and again until you OWN it....you will cut the emotional ties, they are not the real ties that bind. It's something else. |
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Post by unicorn on Jul 3, 2013 13:42:54 GMT
you are soooo right. I feel that I have detached significantly. I guess I still have some more to go. Ugh why is this so hard??? I should be able to be rational about the whole thing.
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Post by maremma67 on Jul 3, 2013 17:59:23 GMT
It is hard to let go and just walk away for many reasons.I will get into some of them later. I just see there are some deeper issues going on with you than for some other people and that is what is making it harder for you than some others to just bail right now.
You are making lists of "deal breakers" but there is going to be a far more serious problem as soon as he violates one of them. YOU will be forced to either give up that boundary or be willing and able to stand firm on it and not budge. Where you are at right now I am very worried that you may be putting a proverbial noose around your own neck. You need to work on some issues within yourself that are going to give you the strength to stand firm so you don't wind up forced to give up another boundary. I hate to even say this but I am worried your not ready yet to put those bigger tougher boundaries in place. He will just run roughshod right over them and you will be crushed underneath his steamroller:(
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Post by unicorn on Jul 3, 2013 19:40:43 GMT
You are probably right on that as well. As much as I'd like to think I'd hold firm to it. I have yet to do any of that previously, which is why I am still in this mess.
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Post by SolarFlare on Jul 4, 2013 3:53:46 GMT
Boundaries are not be used as bluffs. You have to be ready to follow through the first time and stick with it. Otherwise, you have intermittent reinforcement going on...which is also no good.
Give yourself time and be gentle with yourself. You will screw up and that's fine, the battle is not lost. The battle is an internal one of the Self. Not him. Once you master yourself...he will not be such a nuisance to you. You'll see what I mean when and as you get there. Little steps....but keep going. We're here to help.
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Post by maremma67 on Jul 4, 2013 6:00:56 GMT
Unicorn you CAN get out of this mess. Lets work on helping you to learn to love yourself a little better. It will fortify you inside which is where we must all start when any challenge lays in front of us.
How about we start with some smaller boundaries that you can practice with. It will be less "scary" for you to speak them and stand firm on them. I think once you begin taking little pieces of your power back you will feel stronger and stronger every day. You know like maybe the one with your best friend.You can set a boundary there that says if he says or does anything to make my friend uncomfortable and want to end our visit abruptly I WILL be leaving with her to finish our visit outside of the house.Choice is yours"(always give them a "choice")Visit here or visit somewhere else but there WILL be a visit.
Of course he will fight with you and likely give you the same lines of crap about you lying etc.. You can also stand up for yourself by simply saying to him, "If you don't like other people discussing your (temper or jealousy or insert whatever is appropriate here) ,then maybe you could just stop doing/saying/acting that way and that would solve the whole problem." Do not use an ugly tone. Do not use a judgmental voice. Just calm and matter of fact offering that advise to him just like you would offer advise to a friend.
Then DO NOT discuss it any further. You have laid down the boundary that you ARE staying friends with her, if he attempts to ruin your visits while you are IN the house with him then you will leave the house and visit her without him being present. Choice is his.
Along with this every day you need to be speaking to YOURSELF. You really do need some of the damage done to your self esteem to be healed honey. I would have to guess that he has done quite the number on that by now:(
Think about things that he has said or done that make you feel bad about yourself or like you don't deserve to be treated any better.Start making a list of all those things and let us help you work through those to get some of the gaping wound he has left on you soul healed up.You ARE worth it.You DO deserve it. You cannot change anyone but yourself.
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