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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 8, 2013 17:57:09 GMT
Can a business succeed without a plan of action?
I say no.
I have a friend who is in a tough spot and has created a painting company.
He's the only one who I will do work for at a reduced cost because he's going through a hard time and is strapped.
I have told him no matter what the business is, even a celebrity toe nail clipping collection business, you need a plan.
I have offered to help him start one, but he thinks you just create a flyer and go, and plan as you go along.
I really disagree.
So this time, with this new business, I told him either you do a plan or I have to charge you. Not as I would another business, but still, something.
Because I myself have bills, and he doesn't get it yet, that you have to do a plan. Nothing works when you "fly by the seat of your pants".
Anyone disagree?
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Post by Elementum on Sept 8, 2013 18:12:51 GMT
I'm big on the POA...mind you have also been known to fly by the seat of my pants and make a success of that. So, it kind of depends what's at stake.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 8, 2013 18:18:37 GMT
What is at stake is him competing with guys who have been doing painting for 30 years. Guys that are trained in a trade and in an economy where $1 price difference makes or breaks a job.
He's just starting out and has always put an idea on a friday night into action, hoping it sticks.
It's something that has to be said sensitive,because the past has not been as successful as he thought.
I don't get his stance on not wanting to plan something out. The past results are screaming for it. That's why I am taking any offers of help off the table. I don't get it, it's free help that's being turned down because he thinks he knows it all.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 8, 2013 18:23:08 GMT
Bad idea on his part. Given the tight margin he really does need to sit down and plan that out. I can understand your stance on that.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 8, 2013 18:27:44 GMT
My stance is simple.
I'll start and help you with a business plan and start the marketing, etc., all at a reduced cost, or, I do the logo and that's it,
But I am not putting a crap load of effort into something that will accomplish zilch.
He thinks he knows best and he does not.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 8, 2013 18:31:05 GMT
Fair enough. Not much to argue with on that score. It's your time and energy and offer of help that's on the line. I'd go with the business plan though. Logo is nice, but not necessary. Kind of the fun bit to create, but the Plan is the crux of the long term potential of a business.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 13, 2013 2:39:47 GMT
I'm thrown for a loop on how someone wants to run a business without time spent on a computer. In some ways I'm annoyed that nothing I build a strategy for will be followed. Especially since my time is already short and this is now eating two full days.
Im going to be extremely pissed if he says he has no funds to print cards/flyer because he would have known prior.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 13, 2013 2:46:04 GMT
Yep, I hear you. Helped a lady in Spain to set up a spread sheet because she didn't know how. Now she is up and running.
Buddy needs a reality check.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 13, 2013 2:55:05 GMT
Because someone is a good person does that excuse them from being accountable?
Does it give them the right to waste your time? Even if its not meant that way?
E.g.
Bob really is being way out of line.
#: Bob is a really good person.
Bob is just putting me in a bad spot.
#: Bob is a really good person.
Bob is putting pressure on me and I don't have the time, I need to focus on generating income.
#: Bob is a really good person.
So what I mean is when that statement is somehow used as a precursor to putting you in a tough spot.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 13, 2013 3:04:21 GMT
No.
No.
No.
Question of intent though as well.
You offered to help him under XYZ criteria. If it is NOT costing YOU $$$$ and taking too much of your time. Then do it, if it fails it's his problem.
Help him because you WANT to, not because you feel OBLIGATED to. And NO strings attached either. He's a friend, not a business contact. Different thing. Let go of the outcome. It's on His head if he screws it up. Not yours.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 13, 2013 15:05:30 GMT
Good point. I'm getting a little tired of the sob stories that have been used for years. There is a point where you stop feeling bad for someone when they make the same mistake over and over. And when they expect something even though they don't say it. There is a reason things haven't worked out.I'm not an expert by any means but 1000's of people will say the same thing.
Yes, it's a friend, but when a favor turns into expectation hard deadlines it becomes something different.
Especially when you ask them to write a rough paragraph and they give you an IDK, or half a sentence.
And then they can't go to the post office to get mailing costs and ask you.
I have no one to blame but myself for this, but have to get it off my chest.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 13, 2013 15:50:33 GMT
The bolded points are the key here. You have real life responsibilities. Not much to debate on that point.
Bob doesn't want to do the ground work? Bob gets written off. It's his business he wants to build, so it's his problem, not yours.
My GF sent me what she wanted the spreadsheet to do for her. She had no idea how to get started with it. Took me an hour or so. Locked it up for her so she couldn't blow out anything. And went into biz not 2 months later. Promoted her on the forums and she is doing well and growing.
If Bob is unwilling to move his own ass, why should you be the one to move it for him?
POA/ biz plan is on his head. That's the way I look at it. Maybe a tad harsh, but...yeah. He needs to know the prices of every thing, from Paints to brushes, the length of wear, overalls, gas mileage, advertising costs , wages for workers, any benefits that he needs to pay out what have you and taxes. Safety issues/ requirements. Tons of info.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 13, 2013 16:37:32 GMT
I'm just writing a 3 sentence flyer or card, and stopping at a certain point. It's now reached 20 hours. Love the "I didn't want you to spend so much time" line.
Oh you wanted shit work?
Love the lines people use to justify themselves and make themselves feel better.
Bottom line is that its on me. I could have said no.
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Post by CGisNuts on Sept 13, 2013 16:47:15 GMT
The problem is that I don't do quick crap work. I have too much pride and it does matter to me to provide the best "product" for my clients to succeed. I just need to vent.
Problem is that I went against what I said I would not do. It's a good friend and I want to see him succeed, but I say yes too easy.
I mean he gives me a half-assed list of services as if he just pulled them out of his arse.
And it's getting me pissed because he's put 0 effort into thinking his business out, yet I'm spending 20+ hours when I have so much other sh_t to do.
I mean it's like he's a high school kid thinking out something on thursday night beer night.
And in 6 weeks when he has no customers he'll ask for a website and complain he's got no money.
Prefaced with "I'm having a tough time". Expecting everyone to help because he's got it rough.
It kills me that it's so half-arsed.
And then he won't want to hear it and get mad that someone is telling him how to run his business.
I have to stop trying to fix every one else's problems and worry about my own problems.
I don't remember anyone helping me lately (not that I want that or ask) and I have to keep that in mind.
The main problem is that I said yes too easy and now I can't go back. I'll look like a fool.
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Post by Elementum on Sept 13, 2013 17:08:09 GMT
So, stop. That's your call to make. X# of hours and that's it. Otherwise, you end up pissed at yourself and resenting him. He also can accept NO as an answer without freaking out. If he can't? He's got a problem.
Quick flyer and card 20 hours? Holy bat crap. We whip them up here with design and print in about 2 hours,full color and the works.
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